17 April 2001

Is there a difference between Magick and Prayer?

All the pagans in the group answered no, and it rather upset the Christian who had asked the question. Basically, everyone agreed that prayer and magick are the same thing.
My response was thought out, and researched using a dictionary... (hey, it was there and accessible)

	"I just wanted to say that there certainly is some magick in mass. I mean, how else can you turn bread to body and wine to blood? "It is magick! "Pure and simple, it is a catholic magick ritual that has power over natural materials. "Magic is defined as "the use of means believed to have supernatural power over natural forces." Websters dictionary. "Supernatural is defined as "of or relating to an order of existence beyond the visible observable universe; esp: of or relating to God. " Websters dictionary. "Ritual is defined as "the established form for a ceremony." Websters dictionary. "By those definitions and by the rites within the Catholic church, a priest performs a magick ceremony every Sunday. (and oftimes during the week as well.) "Now, I don't know anything about other religions. My parents were very strict Catholics. "Praying has many definitions. "1. to make a request in a humble manner. 2. to address God or a god with adoration, confession, supplication or thanksgiving." Websters dictionary. And prayer has even more. "Oftimes, pagans make requests, so do Christians. Also, both address their God, gods or goddess with adoration, supplication and/or thanksgiving. "Hence, praying. Also, hence, magick. "Outside of the ritual similarities, the days of worship similarities, and even similarities in saints to gods/goddess, I'd say that the only difference is that pagans accept Christians, yet many Christians do not take the time to learn about our beliefs or to accept us for who we are. I want to re-emphasize MANY, because I do know quite a few Christians who are accepting and understanding. However, the ones who are terrified and don't give us a chance outnumber the ones who do."

Then the Christian said she was going to pray for us. This was upsetting to some, quite understandably, and things got heated.
She also made the comparison that she could pray to her God to light a fire with her eyes, but it would not be answered, however she could cast a spell and light a fire that way... This is how I responded...

	"Okay, on the same line, at this moment I am lighting a candle and praying to the Goddess for you. " Is that okay? Because I just did it. " I prayed for understanding, patience and an open mind if She wished it to be so. I did not ask Her to do anything you were uncomfortable with and by the way, I did not "create" the fire -- I used a lighter, ya know the ones with some sort of liquid fluid inside. " Simply put, I prayed to the Goddess to help this conversation and people involved in the way She saw as best. I didn't force my prayer upon you, I left the decision to the Goddess. I simply lit my candle and prayed to Her. No harm, nothing forced, nothing bad. A simple prayer to allow my words to be expressed properly."

Then I expressed the reason I disagreed with the beliefs of the Catholic Church.

	"Ya know, one of the reasons I pulled away from the catholic church was for this very reason. Here is the priest telling us how God loves everyone, no matter what, and he will forgive anything. God is love. Yes. THEN, we hear stories about how he killed people who sinned. Innocent children, even. (Original Sin?!?!? lets not go there) Okay, then the priests explain how it happened in the past and God will never do that again. (The rainbow?) But that non-believers will still go to Hell. "THAT was my biggest problem. Hell. For many years, I was a part of the Catholic church. I was Baptized, received my first Holy Communion, and was Confirmed. But I still struggled with the concept of hell. How could a God of love send ANYONE to hell? Especially those who lived a good life, did good things, just believed differently. I never understand that and I still have problems. Now, purgatory, I could see. But straight to hell? Even if they lived humble, good lives, to HELL? "No, not a God *I* wanted to believe in. And for many many years I struggled with that. Then, I finally opened myself up to learn about other beliefs. "Today, I am a Wiccan and proud of it. I don't believe in Hell. And I don't think I ever did."

All in all, it was an interesting night... I was up until 2 am. Unfortunately, the person who had started the conversation went to bed before I had read the posts. Perhaps she will respond to me this eve. If the discussion continuesk, I will add it to my diary....

Fare thee well, till next time...

Blessed Be!!